The None to Run Podcast

Hello, everybody. I'm Mark Kennedy, and this is the Health podcast episode 32 with guest Mark Remy. Greetings, everybody. What's happening in your world? If you're new to the Health Anomalyx podcast, this is typically an interview based show where I talk to some of the best minds in running from coaches to physiotherapists to nutritionists, even athletes themselves.

As a token of appreciation to listeners of this episode with my guest, Mark Remy, I'm giving away a copy of each of Mark's books. His books include c is for chafing, the runner's rule book, everything a runner needs to know and then some, runners of North America, a definitive guide to the species, the runner's field manual, a tactical and practical survival guide, and the dumb runner training journal. If you want to win a copy of each of these books, simply leave a comment at the bottom of at the page healthenomics.com/30two. In the actual interview with Mark, I made a mistake and gave the wrong link. The correct link is healthinomics.com/32 and not /30one.

Go there, leave a comment by 05/31/2017 and I'll select one random winner to receive a copy of each book. Before we get to today's interview with Mark Remy, I wanted to see if anyone's tried the popular couch to five k program and found it too challenging. If so, I put together a free plan that addresses the flaws I see in the couch to five k. If you wanna check out the plan, go to nonetorun.com and then click on the none to run plan button at the top onto today's interview with Mark Remy. Mark Remy is a runner and writer based in Portland, Oregon.

He's been a columnist and a writer at Runner's World since 02/2007. Mark has been running since 1994 and has run 27 marathons including Boston Eight times. In 2015, Mark launched Dumb Runner, which is a website for runners who enjoy laughter and pie, His words. Most of the online advice for beginner runners makes running too hard, too complicated. Dumb runner, well, dumbs everything down because Mark believes running should be simple and so do I.

In this episode we talk about how running has impacted Mark's life, the shower beer, give you a hint, you should try it, stretching, was it only cool in 1981? The only three things you need to know to begin running, really, how to pick a training plan, and much more. The show notes for this episode will be at Healthenomics.com/30two. There, you'll also be able to download the transcript of this episode. Please enjoy my chat with Mark Remy.

Welcome to the Healthenomics podcast.

Welcome to the Healthenomics Podcast. Mark, happy to have you on the show.

Thanks. Thank you for inviting me.

Yeah, no worries. Excited to chat. I've been following your sites online and, reading some of your articles in Runner's World, for quite some time now. Excited to, finally chat and, I'm sure our listeners are excited as well to hear you and hear about some of your stories and some of your information with regards to running and helping beginner runners which is what I primarily focus on helping out beginner runners. Anyways, why don't we start by can you tell us a little bit about maybe where you grew up and your journey into running and then what you're up to today with regards to running and work etc.

Right. Taking those in order if I can. First of all, someone questioned whether I've grown up at all but to the extent that I have grown up or did grow up, it happened in South Central Ohio here in The States and lived in a pretty small town, pretty rural and started out actually as a cyclist, a road cyclist back then in high school.

Did you

get into road I'm sorry?

How did you get into road cycling?

That's enough. So I'm afraid we're already going go on a tangent. I'm terrible about going off on tangents. The short version is that there was a huge, huge two day, two hundred mile bike ride that went kind of by my hometown every Mother's Day weekend. It's still going on.

It's called the Tour of the Soyra River Valley.

Okay.

And I kind of caught into that and some friends and I decided to, guess you would call it the equivalent of abandoning when you're before I knew any better. So we kind of hopped on, we didn't do the whole thing but we hopped in with the writers and did like half of one of the days, you know, in our department store junky bikes and it trashed us and everything else but you know, we loved it and I certainly stuck with it and that's kind of got me started with that. So I got better bikes and got better and faster and rode longer. So I did that for a lot of years actually, dabbled in racing but mostly century rides, hundred mile rides. And that kind of laid the foundation I guess looking back for my running life.

And I kind of got into running later as kind of cross training for cycling. So I kind of stumbled into it I guess. You know, for most folks it works the other way around. They start out running and then, know, due to injury or whatever, you know, they wind up in their older years turning to cycling a bit more, but I did it backwards. That's I do things I guess.

But yeah, it's been good. I've already forgotten, I've already forgotten your other two questions. You had like at least a three part question.

Yeah, know, I threw too much at you so apologies but

No, no, no.

What did we talk about? We talked about where you grew up, how you got in into running and what are you running now? What's like or what distances did you start running? Did you like you know one of those people who said I'm just going to do a marathon or did you start with five Ks? What's your running journey been like?

Yeah. I was about to say I that dumb to jump right into the marathon, but I

thought something happened. I

was fairly I was dumb enough even back then. All kidding aside, for one thing, I've been biking fairly seriously and pretty long distances for, gosh, nine, ten years, I guess, before I got into running. I had a pretty good aerobic base, cardio base, and I was lean and healthy and I was also 20 years old and that goes a long way. You're a lot more resilient when you're that young. So my first race My first actual race might have been a 15 miler if memory serves.

I remember it was a Valentine's Day race. It was cold. I was wearing tights. I remember doing fairly well and that looks better than I expected and I thought, well, there might be something to this. So you know, that kind of was another rung on the ladder.

So you know, it wasn't long after that that I decided, you know, a, I think I'm better, I'm better at running, you know, naturally, just physically. Better at running than I am at cycling and you know, and by that time, like I said, I've been biking pretty steadily, pretty seriously for about ten years almost. So after a while you kind of get, even if you still enjoy it, you kind of get a little burned out, know. So the combination of those two things just you know, gradually turned me from cyclist who sometimes runs into a runner who sometimes bikes and then you know, just pretty much a runner who keeps telling himself he should get back on the bike more but really doesn't. Although I am more now but more for transportation.

Yeah. So I basically I went, if memory serves, I think I went for that 15 mile race. My next race you know, per se actually might have been the marathon. But that's only because there weren't a whole lot of races, at least that I knew about in South Central Ohio back then. So in fairness, I do recall actually training for the marathon.

Maybe not very smart or very intelligently but I certainly did put the miles in and so I did my first marathon at age 25 and did reasonably well I guess and just kept going from there.

So how many I know you've done a lot of marathons. How many marathons total have you run?

I ran marathon number twenty seven two days ago at Boston.

Oh, you ran Boston? Congratulations.

Yeah, did. Thanks.

How did go?

It good. I never intended to do Boston twenty seventeen. To be honest, I never really planned. I no plans on really doing a marathon again ever for the indefinite future, not that I was totally against the idea but I just had no plans. And then you know months ago, a fellow Canadian, Sullivan, a Facebook friend of mine, just shot me an email and said, hey, would you be interested in possibly guiding me at Boston?

Tim is blind, you know, he's visually impaired Okay. And legally blind. So I I said, yeah, because how can you say no to an offer like that? So I wound up guiding him. That was my first time guiding a blind runner And it went okay.

There were no major calamities. We we were lucky enough to have another more experienced guide with us. So there were two two of us guiding and Tim kind of running in between us and we actually hooked up with a third guide whose whose runner had unfortunately had to drop out during the race. So by the time we finished the race, were you know, three guides for one runner.

So lots of support for him. It was a warm day. Was it a bit too warm for the marathon?

Yes. It's the short answer.

Yeah.

So yeah, there was a lot of yeah, it was rough. Let me put it this way, I don't think I spoke with anybody after I haven't spoke with anybody since the race who had told me like, Yeah, had an awesome race. I had a really good time at PR. I felt great. You know, everyone I've talked to including ones who are really in shape and really ready for it.

Just you know, it was a slog for everybody I guess.

Yeah. Do you know Mario Frioli at all?

Yeah, sure.

Yeah. He was a guest on my podcast a few weeks back and yeah, just sort of followed his updates on his race and he said it was his worst marathon time ever.

Yeah, but we still went like a 2.3 or 2.4 or something ridiculous or so. It's like, yeah.

Oh yeah. I had no sympathy but I think he ran a 2.45 or 2.47 or something.

I think I think I think it's around there, you're right. Yeah. But I mean, I, you know, I I joke. I mean, it's all relative and, you know, a bad race for one runner is it it would be a, you know, a fantastic race for another and it's just it all depends on on where you are and what your goals are. But yeah, everybody was adjusting their expectations down on Monday, I think.

Yeah, for sure. Through all those numerous races, you've done marathons and other races, any favorites that stand out for some reason or another?

Well, you know, a related question that I get sometimes, what's your favorite marathon? And you know, it sounds like a kind of a glib answer or maybe even a cop out but I always, you know, I always say Boston automatically just because it, you know, it's Boston. You know, there's really

Yeah.

You know, I've kind of run out of ways to describe it without sounding completely trite but it's a pretty special race, know, it's the Boston Marathon and it's just, you know, I struggle for words to describe those emotions when you make that final left turn on Boylston. You know, I mean it's emotional every step of the way, don't get me wrong, know, there's, you know, through all the towns and the crowds are great and Wellesley's great and the fire station in the Newton Hills, it's just, you know, it's just, it's crazy, you know, like the same literature sometimes, like the marathon itself is like a character in the story, you know?

Absolutely.

It's really something else. And you know, as far as like my best or my most memorable race ever, this might sound like a bit of an easy answer too, but you know, Monday's race was pretty amazing, you know, just because it was my first time ever, not only my first time ever guiding a blind runner, it was the first time that I've ever really run for anybody else but myself, period. Yeah. You know? You know, I've been at this, you know, twenty some years now and it encouraged me like, wow, I've never, you know, I was I was never one to to go the charity running route.

Yeah, I have great respect and admiration for those guys but I just never went down that path myself Yep. For a reason and I never really ran even like in someone's memory or anything as simple as that. You know, when I was running and really racing, it was just pure competition and wanting to see how well I could run and you know, how PRs I could set, all that kind of inward focused stuff. So running with this outward focus was, it was brand new to me and it was pretty incredible, you know, I gotta say. And you know, my buddy Tim who I was guiding was having a bit of a rough day, not just because of the heat but he had an injury flare up fairly early into the race.

And for a while there I thought it was kind of touch and go, like I was wondering to my, know, strictly to myself of course, like I'm not sure if we're gonna finish today, you know. Yeah. But I tried to stay as positive as I could and Tim was just a champion. He's a super positive guy and he, you know, we took plenty of walk breaks and got lots of fluids and just got it done, know. We finished and he ran all the way down Boylston, so

That's awesome.

So, you know, we got it done, yeah. So that was that was pretty that was pretty memorable, you know. Probably number two would have been also at Boston, but you know, my first Boston because you you only get one first time and that was a pretty special day.

Yeah, well that's great. Thanks for sharing that. And then today, so you're a writer, is that what you do for a living primarily?

I ask myself the same thing quite often. My wife asked me, you're just for a living?

Wait, wait, who are you? What do

you do? Yeah. Who are I anewis really, know? Not to get all existential. Yeah, yeah, I'm a writer.

So my background is strictly in publishing. I started out, you know, at first in newspapers, believe it or not, if you remember what those are. And I did that for a while and still have deep affection and love for newspapers, like the actual print physical, you know, smudgy kind.

As do I.

Yeah. It's good stuff. So I I started with that, and then from there, got got my foot in the door at Rodale. Back then, it called Rodale Press, which is based in Eastern Pennsylvania. And of course, Rodale Rodell Inc, as it's called today, is the parent company of not just Runner's World, but bicycling and men's health and prevention and all these other healthy crunchy kind of titles.

So working there was literally a dream come true for me. I dreamed about working at Rodale since high school really. I used to read Backpacker Magazine, which back then was a write up title. So I kind of again stumbled into a job at Rodale and was fortunate to do that. That, man, you know, more than any other single thing in my professional life, I think that was probably the single biggest event that kind of shape the rest of my adult professional life was getting that first job at Rodale.

So it wasn't in Runner's World, but it was in the company. I was close enough and eventually I did make my way to Runner's World and worked at Men's Health for a while, that kind of thing. Then bounced around a bit in New York City and then came back to Rodale and back to Runner's World actually. Edited their website for a few years, became an editor at large and just kind of a general utility player type writer slash editor there. Then three years ago, my wife and I decided to pull up stakes and move.

So we got to Portland and have been here ever since.

That's great. And so you're still working with Runner's World today?

I am, yeah. I was fortunate enough to be able to bring most of my job at the time with me, minus the benefits and so on because there were various legal and tax reasons for that, but I essentially became a contractor. And since then, my work with Runner's World has been kind of narrowed down and focused. I took the initiative to do that, so I was doing, I'm doing a little bit less for Runner's World now and that freed up time for me to launch my own website, which is dumbrunner.com, and that was back in the fall of twenty fifteen, So ever since then, I've been, you know, continuing my work for Runner's World, which includes McCollum and Matt in the print magazine four times a year, a feature article here and there, and various other duties along with other, you know, whatever other freelance editorial work I can scrounge up. And also a lot of time, I'm funneling into Dumbrunner, know, trying to cultivate that and build a readership and have some fun with that.

So yeah, I kinda got a lot of lot of things going at once here, it's fun.

Well, I wanna come back to Dumb Runner for sure because Yeah. I I love your writing there. Thanks. With regards to Runner's World, it seems like it comes up every podcast I'm with, but Alex Hutchison who writes Runner's World actually lives in my neighborhood, seen with the butcher periodically. I've yet to have him on the podcast but I've been for beers with him but yeah, he actually grew up in this neighborhood randomly.

Anyways, love his writing as well.

Oh, Alex is a great guy. Yeah. I've only met him in person a few times but we've we've corresponded quite a bit via email and Facebook and stuff and I have tremendous respect and admiration for Alex, know, because not like is he like a bonafide, like you know, really super fast runner, but he so knows his stuff. And he, know, Alex has this super rare talent for taking what is, you know, let's face it, a pretty dry topic which is exercise physiology and exercise science and all this in the research and that kind of stuff and kind of translating it for a mass audience in a really smart readable way, you know, without without dumbing it down. And that's that's a really fine line to to to walk and he does it in a way that I never could because it's just not my thing.

He's smart guy, smart funny guy.

Yes, smart guy and often times, I studied kinesiology in university and stuff so I get the science aspect but often this question comes up and more often than not, I'm like, I know Alex has written about this somewhere, I just search for his answer and send it to people because I

know it's

simple, easy to read, easy to digest and it's not too science y.

No, I do that myself. It's very personable writing. Know, his voice comes through and that's rare too for a writer who primarily focuses on research and health and fitness and stuff like that. Yeah, it's good stuff.

Yeah, exactly.

And you know, he's also, by the way, another thing, I was trying to put this into words and I couldn't until now, but I think another thing I really like about Alex is that he is, at least in my opinion, he's a skeptic. But he's a healthy skeptic. He's skeptical without being cynical about it. Yes. He's not afraid to push back and ask tough questions and to be honest, to call BS when there's BS to be called out, but never in a mean or snarky way and I admire that as well.

Yeah, exactly. Well, I got to get him on the podcast one of these days. Again, before I get to Dumb Runner, I want to talk a little bit, how has running impacted your life or made you a better person?

Geez, that's a big question. Where should I start? I mean, like with a lot of things, think running throughout my life So first of all, I've to say that like I said earlier, I've been running more or less twenty years, a little more than twenty years now. I paid my life as a runner to my first marathon, which was 1995, which is close enough. So I've been doing this quite a while and over that period of time, and I don't think I'm unusual in this regard, I think I'm fairly typical, the rest of my life has just been a roller coaster, know?

I know just geographically and personally and emotionally and professionally and romantically and everything else, it's just like everyone else, life just kind of comes at you and you know, it's just this craziness. And the one kind of through line, through all that stuff has been running, know, it's been this constant. So in that sense alone, it's helped me just because it's, gosh, you know, it's like a, it's kind of like a rope, a rope leading you through these tricky mountain passes and there's this rope that you can grab on and it's right there and no matter what else is happening, you still have running. As long as you're healthy, God willing you are, more often than not, you can, you know, just put your shoes on and go out the door and just go. And virtually every time you do it, you come back at least feeling like a slightly better person.

You know, a little more clear headed, little more energetic, a little more, I don't know, you have more perspective. It's just this weirdly wonderful thing, know? It's almost magical. And it never diminishes, you know? No matter how much you do it or how long you do it.

Like you know, I could go out for a run today and come back and it would have the same effect, you know? And that's a pretty remarkable thing. I can't think of a lot of things in life that are like that.

Yeah. I like your analogy with the rope. I never really thought of it that way but that really resonates with me. Just like it's always there and you know, life throws twists and turns at you all the time, but there's always this rope and it's this constant that you can hold onto. Yeah, it just kind of keeps you moving in the right direction.

Yeah, yeah. So then, apart from that, there are the I think running, for me anyway, works on at least two levels, a micro level and a macro level and the macro level stuff includes that stuff I just described, you know, running is a constant, it's always there, it's always available and just knowing it's there is reassuring, you know. Yeah, it's kind of built in stability even when everything else is just going to pieces, know, there's always running. That's like the macro level and on the micro level, just day to day it helps your mood, know, it keeps you fit and healthy. Gosh, you know, it strengthens your heart and your lungs and your soul and all this other corny stuff and it's just great, know, what can I say?

So to look at it another way, you could ask, you know, where would I be today? In every sense of word, where would I be? You know, to write off that same list, you know, geographically and professionally and psychologically and emotionally and all those other things. Where would I be today if I didn't have running that whole time? You know, if there's some parallel universe out there that has, you know, one of me in it but without running, you know, I think I'd be in a significantly worse place, you know?

Yep.

So, you know, I try to I don't dwell on those kind of thoughts but I do think about it fairly often only because important, you know, not to take things for granted and I try not to take things for granted. Yeah. But, yeah.

Well, that's great. Thanks for sharing that. Now, your site Dumbrunner and, before I let you tell us a little bit about it, I just wanna read a couple little, either their titles of articles or a couple little, segments within, articles or posts that just jumped out of me today when I was just looking through. One was just a question and I think this is a serious question, someone went in, you can correct me if I'm wrong. Dear dumb runner, is it possible to freeze my twig and berries while running in shorts during the winter months in Colorado?

Did someone write that in?

Yes. Yeah. So that is from a section of the site called Ask Dumb Runner.

Yep.

Actually in the top navigation of the website, it's called Reader Q and A, which I think is more clear than Ask Dumb Runner. Yep. And that's the one section of the site that's pretty much always serious or or about as serious as my site gets.

Okay.

Not not to get ahead of ourselves, but most of the site is at least intended to be humorous and satirical and little tongue in cheek. The ask dumb runner part is where I take reader questions and answer them. And I do try to answer everyone who writes me even if it doesn't wind up published on website. So everyone who writes me hopefully gets at least a brief personal response. And my philosophy with Ask Dumb Runner is that, well first of all, I included that in the site in the first place because I didn't want the whole thing just to be a gag.

Yes.

You know, because laughter is good and necessary and fun and all that stuff, but you know, I just felt like the site needed something that was real, I guess, and useful.

Yeah.

A little more substantial, I guess you could say. Plus, I just like the idea of helping people out, which, know, making them laugh is helping them too I guess, but you know, have been doing this long enough and have been, you know, read enough and written enough and worked closely enough enough really smart other people that I feel like I have some wisdom at this point to offer and I try to offer it. So long story short, yeah, Ask Dumbrunner is, they're all real questions from real readers. You can remain anonymous if you want to but I'll publish the question if I think it's publishing worthy

Yeah.

And an actual response, know. And the response might be a little fun as well but there's an actual answer in there someplace. We said I try to put one in there.

Well that's great and I I I like to cite the methodology to how you set it up with, know, the humor side, the serious side because I mean, Runner's World already exists so there's no point, you know, sort of rehashing another site that's just, you know, like how to do this, how to do this, what to do with this. So I found it really refreshing and a couple

of Oh gosh. Yeah. Sorry,

go ahead.

No, no, no. Was just gonna Sorry to interrupt. I was just gonna say that, you know, yeah, you're right, of course. And first of all, you know, the runner's world is, you know, the 800 pound gorilla, you know, let's face it. And and they're that for a reason, you know, they're they're completely dominant and they they do a certain thing and they do it super well.

And, you know, yeah, trying trying to establish a new kind of Runner's World like website would be not only redundant but kind of stupid on my part. That that'd beyond dumb. That'd be stupid.

Yeah. Couple of other ones I like too. There's an article called Let Us Now Praise the Shower Beer, which really made me laugh because I have been guilty in the past of bringing a beer into the shower and I don't know if it was the morning. I hope it was in the morning, that'd be brutal. I think it was an afternoon run, cracked a beer and then we had to get somewhere and I was like, Well, you know, it's a warm I'm not going to waste this beer so it's coming to the shower with me.

Yeah, of course.

Another one too I just saw in one of your articles for it might have been targeted to beginners but it said, When should I stretch? And then your first line was, I recommend stretching in 1981, which is funny but also true. Mean that's sort of what the research says and yeah, I tell my listeners all the time, by all means if you want to stretch because it makes you feel good, go for it but you don't need to.

Yeah, that's the thing. Yeah, and you know, I wrote a more recent bit on stretching when, I don't if you remember this, but a while back some research came out about flossing, flossing your teeth, you know? They essentially concluded that there's no They didn't say it was useless, but the conclusion, if I recall, was that there's really no evidence anywhere to suggest that flossing is really that beneficial as far as oral health is concerned, despite what every dentist out there will tell you, including my own. So that finding was a little controversial and some people pushed back, dentists for one. But I loved reading it because it validated something I felt in my gut my whole life, which is that I don't know how family friendly or I'm feeling that your show is, but I'll try to be PG here, is flossing is BS.

I made the analogy between flossing and stretching.

Yeah.

And I think they're really similar. If you want to do it, if it makes you feel better or healthier, you know, God bless knock yourself out. But you know, don't feel that you have to. You know, and certainly don't admonish other people who choose not to do it, know? Yeah.

And most important, and this is a big thing for me, most important, don't feel bad if you don't want to do it, you know? Yeah. It's, yeah, getting back to the stretching thing, stretching is really emblematic of this I think. You know, running has kind of become, I guess like a lot of things in life, just super needlessly complicated, you know? You know, we've been kind of trained and groomed to overthink it and know, agonize and analyze every little thing and every little bit of research that comes along and this and that.

If that's your thing, if that motivates you, worrying about what you should eat at what point during the run and timing your protein intake just right. And like, there are, you know, there are a thousand little things like that that just blown up. I mean, if that's, if you like getting into that and you really enjoy it and you really think it makes your life and your running better and happier and everything else, then again, go for it. But one of my missions in life, as I get older, is to just pound this home just to tell people if you don't want to live like that, you don't have to. You know, there's this, that's kind of become like the default for a lot of people like, you know, gosh, what running shoes should I wear and you know, what sort of wearable technology and you know, how should I fuel?

You know, the word fuel, used like that, is one my pet peeves. I never refer to fuel. To me it's food. It's food and drink, know?

Yeah, eating and drinking, Yeah,

you know, and you know, it goes on and on and on and on and you just barrage, it just beats you up after a while. And you know, what kills me is that people who are looking to get into running, I'm afraid will be so overwhelmed, so daunted by this tsunami of information and tips and advice and warnings and, you know, are you stretching wrong? Are you stretching wrong, are you eating wrong, you know, here are five ways, you're sabotaging, you're training all that stuff.

Yeah.

I think they're so like daunted by just seeing all that stuff that they might be discouraged from even running at all, you know, which kills me. I'm like, oh, it doesn't have to you can safely ignore virtually all that stuff. Just got there and run, know. There are a few guiding principles.

Yeah, well this is a perfect actually segue right now because this is an article I read on your website and after reading this because I focus on helping beginner runners, I read this article you wrote and said immediately after I read it, I think I put a comment on your blog and I think I emailed you a week later and said I need this guy on my podcast because he thinks the same way I do with regards to beginners. Article was sorry, the only three things you need to know to begin running. And you talk about three different things. One, just go. Two, be patient.

And three, pay attention. Can you talk a little bit about each one of those three and how how it relates to a beginner runner?

Yeah. That was a nice segue, wasn't it? Nice. That's just my head was going to before you brought it up. I'm like, actually wrote something about this.

Yes.

Yeah. And I thought, know, so I wrote this post and I thought it was so important that I included a link in the, again, in the top navigation of the website, this cruise called Running 101. And if you click that, it doesn't take you to like a section about how to start running with tips on nutrition and gear and da da da and all this stuff. It just takes you to this one article, which as you said is called The Only Three Things You Need to Know to Begin Running, Really. And you're right, yeah, the first one, and this is not something that I just wrote off the top of my head, by the way.

Want to stress that. Is, a lot of stuff I write is just stuff that kind of tickles me and it's spur of the moment and I dash it off and publish it and walk away, but the information in this article, I think, had been kind of, gosh, have been kind of fermenting in my head for years and years and years, you know? And I finally just sat down and tried my best to distill all these thoughts into one article, and then I distilled the article into those three points as you mentioned. And the more I thought about it, I thought, I think this is actually useful, good advice for anybody. And by the way, not just for beginners, I think this applies, you know, even for veteran runners.

So basically, yeah, the first part, just go, gets back to what I was saying a minute ago about not, you know, shaking off that paralysis that you might feel when you're thinking about starting to run. You know, maybe you watched a marathon or something and you spectated, you got inspired, boy, should run. I got to do a five ks or something, but you know, I haven't run since high school and I got a few extra pounds and this and that, and what shoes do I run? You know, like my wife for example was talking to someone a while back and told me that her friend wanted to know what kind of running shoes to get. She wanted to start running and I basically told her like, just go to a good running store and chat with them a little bit and just buy the shoes that feel comfortable.

And that's it. You know, it's really that simple and there's been a whole industry that's sprung up around questions like that that are working hard to convince people just the opposite. Like no, you need a gait analysis, you have to over point it or under it, should do the wet test, you should do minimal, maximal cushioning, da da da. Just try some shoes on if they're comfortable, then just go with them, know, don't beat yourself up. And kind of underlying what I said before, that the really sad part about this anecdote is that as far as I know, unless something has changed, this same woman still hasn't run a single step because she doesn't know what shoes she should get.

Yeah.

So she's been like kicking that can down the road, you know, she has these shoes for CrossFit or something. She's like, Can I wear the shoes I use for CrossFit? I'm like, This is ridiculous, man. Know, you could Especially when you consider when you're first starting, you shouldn't be running far enough for even horrible shoes, you know, to really mess things up. You know, you could run around the block in penny loafers if you had to or whatever the shoes you're wearing, And that's the thing, if you're just starting, you should be running around the block.

Know, run around the block and call it a success and build from there. Worry about fine tuning your footwear later, but yeah, just go. The second point is just kind of ties in with that, is be patient. Too many people jump into running and I don't know if this is getting I get the sense it's getting worse over the past five, ten, fifteen years or so as technology has gone into hyper speed and we're all accustomed to getting instantaneous results and immediate gratification that the whole idea of deciding to become a runner one day, know, running for three or four or five or six months even, just very, very short distances very slowly, and then maybe signing up for a five ks, you know, and after a few months of that, maybe a 10 ks, and then eventually after a year, year and a half, how about a half marathon, and then a year after that maybe you'll try a marathon. Like that would drive most people today crazy, which is too bad.

Know, so many people want go from zero to marathon in a few In fact, I got another Ask a Wetter question about that some time ago from someone asking, you know, my son is fairly fit, he's young, he's in the military, he wants to do a marathon this fall. And this was like in the summer, so he had like three months Maybe four, was four, three or four months. Can you recommend a training plan? And my response was like, Honestly, my advice is find a training plan for a half marathon and do that. I don't understand the urgency.

Why does he need to do a marathon this fall? Just be patient, be patient.

Yeah, there's couch to five ks and then that sounds like now, I mean, there's going be couch to marathon.

Couch to ultra, I guess. Couch to ultra, there you And move on to the next thing, right? It's just a shame, which especially when you consider, and this is so paradoxical, because one of the most beautiful things that distance running can teach you if you let it is the value of patience. And the fact that, being patient, developing that discipline to delay gratification can pay off in the long run, no pun intended, can pay off in a big way and that's a valuable life lesson as well. But you're never going to get there if you don't have enough patience to begin with to stick with it and just take one step at a time, you know.

Again, guess I tell people it depends on your goals. If your goal is just to finish a marathon and then cross it off your list and move on to bungee jumping or something or skydiving, then okay, train for one in four months and risk getting hurt and probably hate it.

Yeah, you won't enjoy it.

You won't enjoy it. Let's face it, even if you're well trained and experienced, not enjoy it, you probably won't enjoy it. That's another story, but you know, at least you won't wreck yourself en route and yeah, it depends on your goals. I always ask people, Why do you want to run a marathon? Fairly often, they don't have a really very good answer to that, you know?

I don't think they've ever stopped to think about it. I don't know, why don't they? Exactly. I think it's about 26.2 miles or you know.

And then the last one, pay attention.

Right, right, right, pay attention. So this gets a little Well actually this works again on a couple levels. As I say in the article I think, just in the here and now, you need to pay attention to your body. Too many people I think push themselves too hard, too fast, too long, too soon, and you know, break something or get frustrated because they aren't getting the results they want, and I guess that's more about being patient. The point is, if you don't pay attention to your body and adapt, then that can lead to pretty bad things.

On another level, you need pay attention to your surroundings and that means not just traffic and other kind of threats, but just nature or your surroundings, you know, whatever. This gets a little hippy dippy, but I'm a big believer in it. One of the other beautiful things about running is that if you let it, and this is something you can cultivate, know, if you let it, it can really open your eyes to so much Beauty seems like such an inadequate word, but it can open your eyes to so much beauty out there. And not just like the, you know, trees and waterfalls and baby deer, that kind of beauty, but just beauty in places you wouldn't expect it otherwise. Because too often we walk around, you know, staring at our phones or in our cars on the way to an appointment or rushing here, rushing there, and know, one of the most appealing things for me about running is that it's the time to kind of get away from all that and just take a breath and look around a little bit, know?

So pay attention. Pay attention inwardly too to your thoughts, you know? Running is a wonderful opportunity to do that as well, and we have fewer and fewer opportunities like that to really pay attention to what's going on between our ears. And again, on a macro level, pay attention and recognize how far you've come. If you've been running for even just a few weeks maybe, certainly a few months, you're going to see some difference.

It can be so incremental that you risk not noticing it if you don't pay attention. But if you're feeling frustrated that you're not making enough progress fast enough, then maybe try to pay a little closer attention, you know, go back in time and remember like, wait a minute, actually I'm going around the block, not once now, but half a dozen times, I'm not completely winded and feel like I'm dying. So you pay attention and you recognize that, and that can be motivating as well. So yeah, just go, be patient and pay attention. One, two, three.

Once you got that nailed down, if you want to make things more complicated, you certainly can. It's easy to do, trust me. But you don't have especially when you're first starting.

Out there today, the internet, there's so many training plans available for runners, especially beginners. What's your advice on picking a training plan?

Oh gosh, you know, I not to keep plugging Ask Runner, but that's another question I got for Ask Runner as well, separate from the previous marathon training plan question. My answer amounted to basically and this might make some seasoned actual coaches out there cringe, but I stand by it. Again, especially for beginners or for folks who, I to say just want to finish, but you know, quote unquote just want to finish, which I think is perfectly fine goal by the way. Especially for folks like that, who aren't necessarily going for a PR or trying to run a blazing time or something. If your goal is just to get fit without hurting yourself and just get prepared for the distance, I think that within reason, with a few obvious caveats, within reason it doesn't really matter what plane you pick.

And that might sound ridiculous, but I truly believe it. Of course the caveats are there, the caveats being, and I would hope this goes without saying, just use your head, you know? If looking, if you know that you're probably, let's say you're running a half marathon, you're training for your first half marathon, for example. You've been running five Ks for a couple of years, you you run pretty routinely, you're fit and healthy and all good stuff, you think you're ready for a half marathon, and you think that, let's say a two hour and fifteen minute half marathon sounds like a reasonable goal to you, then, you know, choose a training plan that just looks like it's about right for a two fifteen marathoner type runner. Mhmm.

You know? I mean, if it's if it's called the, you know, the the break one thirty half marathon training plan, that's not for you. That's not going to say it's obvious. Because obviously, just if you look at it and think like, Woah, that's way too much mileage and these workouts are too intense, then keep looking. But don't agonize, just like with shoes, don't agonize over which training philosophy or approach you need, which method, you know, how much cross training should there be, you know, is it a seven day cycle or a ten day cycle, is it you know, it's just, you know, as long as you, if you look at it and think like this looks manageable, I could do this and if I do what it says more or less, you know, can always fudge a little bit or if you miss a day or two, it's not life or death.

If I do what this training plan tells me to do more or less between now and race day, yeah, I will probably be okay and I'll be healthy and happy along the way, then choose that training plan.

Yeah, it's kind of

And I tell people too not to overthink it because choosing a training plan isn't like signing a mortgage or something. It's not like you're locked, it's not getting married. No, you can just, if it's not working out after a couple weeks, if you realize like, wow, this is way too hard for me or wow, is way too easy for me or it's just too much mileage, you can either make some tweaks to the plan itself or toss the plan and go find a new one. All these things are allowed, so don't sweat it too much.

Yeah, read an article about diets and if you're looking to lose weight, there's hundreds of diets that will work for you. It's just a matter of sometimes just picking one and having the awareness and a lot of these things will get you to the same place. It's just a matter of just going like your first point in that article we talked about. You just got to start.

Yeah, by the way, are you you're familiar with a writer named Michael Pollan, the food writer?

Yes, the Eat Mostly Plants. Exactly.

Yeah, yeah. So it's actually love to bring I think I bring Bob actually another article I did for Dumbrunner. But yeah, I love his approach, is he distills all of his kind of advice on eating and nutrition and diet and all that stuff into just a handful of words, which is eat food, not too much, mostly plants.

Yeah, simple and so amazing.

Yeah, yeah, and to be honest, I was kind of thinking of him in that phrase when I wrote that three things you need to know article. I wanted to get something similarly concise and pithy and memorable that distilled everything you really need to know into these three guiding principles that you could remember. Mean diet nutrition alone is just, poof, it's just crazy. It's gotten so nuts.

Yeah, absolutely. And that's that's a topic for another probably two podcast episodes.

Oh, gosh.

One, one question I want to ask you and this is something I want to address on my site or blog at some point and I I I sent a survey to all the people who sign up to my email list and I've got about 700 or so people who responded and one of the, biggest struggles people come back with and I I've never really addressed it, I've never seen anyone write an article about it is a lot of people struggle, especially beginners, with getting started running because they're shift workers. They either work night shifts, or their shifts are all over the place, could be day, could be night. Sometimes they work long shifts like twelve, fourteen hours and they may work fourteen days in a row with shifts like that and have seven days off. I'm just wondering if anyone's ever asked you that type of question or any tips that you might be able to provide for people who work shift hours.

Oh gosh, I don't think anyone's submitted that question to me recently, but it's certainly a question I've seen pop up here and again over the years in Runner's World and so on. You know, I really, I'm afraid I don't have much really useful advice, sad to say, except, you know, I guess my advice would be, you know, be young and single. Because when I was actually, because I did in college, summers in college, I did shift work and it was brutal. We did, it was this television tube glass factory, right? And it ran twenty four hours a day.

So we would do seven days in a row from 8AM to 4PM, have a day off and then seven days in a row, four to midnight, have two days off and then seven days in a row midnight to 8AM.

Yeah.

Four days off. So it was brutal. But when I was working there, was biking a lot and that was actually the period of my life when I won. I think I won like two bike races my entire life and while I was doing that swing shift work was when I won one of them, you know? So I was obviously training but my secret was being 20 years old and living at home with my parents.

Yeah, exactly.

So that's my advice, be young and have no responsibilities except training and working. But beyond that, gosh, that's a tough one. It's tough. I don't know.

I think a lot of it too, maybe go back to your three points again. You be patient and you really got to pay attention because if your sleeping patterns are messed up, you might be more apt to get injured and sick and you got to be really patient because maybe some weeks perhaps you can maybe run only once or twice and then other weeks you can run five, six times so that patient really kicks in there too.

Yeah, yeah. I mean some questions are just really tough questions and I'm just curious if there's any way to see what kind of answers you come up with. But yeah, I I would add at the last minute here, don't be afraid to, and this applies to a number of scenarios I guess, don't be afraid to kind of play around and experiment. Try different approaches, know. Try training before work, try after work, try this and that, eat this time or that time.

Again, you be patient, if you just go and be patient and you're patient enough and open minded enough, I'm sure sooner or later you're going to land on a combination of, on a balance that works for you and your sleep cycles and your own body and your own needs.

Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. So I also, before we, I know we're moving along in time here, before we sign off, I want to mention you've also got five books or four books?

Depends on how you define books. I'm not trying to be coy, but really, so, my most Yeah, so I've written what you would call, I guess, four actual books.

Okay.

And one, training journal.

Gotcha.

Which is book like, but not a book book, if you know what I

mean. Okay.

Yeah, if anybody's curious there, you can see them all on dumbrunner.com/store. You can order personalized signed copies there as well as their links to buy them on Amazon and so on. My personal site is markrami.com. It has similar information about all my books.

Okay, well I'll be sure to put the links to your sites that you mentioned there in the show notes but I also want to give away as appreciation, or token appreciation to you and, to help a lucky listener. I want to give away a copy of each of, your 5 or $4 plus your training journal. So all five of them to one lucky listener and I thought to enter just leave a comment on the show notes page which will be at healthenomics.com/31 and it may take a week or so for me to get this post or episode up. But, leave your comment by 05/31/2017 and I'll pick, a lucky winner on 06/01/2017 and, I'll contact you and then I'll get in touch perhaps with you, Mark, and maybe we can arrange to get those signed as well and I'll send you the money and someone will be a happy winner.

Oh, that's brilliant. Thanks.

Yeah, no worries.

Yeah, first prize is one copy of each of my books and second prize is two copies of each of my books.

What's that? No. Oh, two copies, yeah. Yeah, that would be good. So anyways, again, so Healthenomics.com/31 and Mark, anyways, thanks very much for your time and expertise.

Anywhere else people can connect with you online besides dumbrunner.com and markrennie.com?

Oh gosh, those are the two biggies. You you can find my columns in Runner's World magazine, of course. Eventually, they're archived on runnersworld.com. You can also find my older Raney's World online columns, which is like seven and a half years worth of online content for Runner's World are still there someplace if you search for them. But yeah, dartrunner.com, markrami Com and you can find links on both the sites to my social media feeds as well.

Awesome. Well thanks again, Mark.

Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Thanks for listening to the Healthinomics Podcast at www.healthinomics.com.