The None to Run Podcast

Welcome to episode number 17 of the Healthenomics Podcast. I'm your host Mark Kennedy coming at you from Toronto, Ontario, Canada. As many of you know I'm a passionate runner. Running has enriched my life in so many ways, many of them beyond just health and fitness. And I'm often asked by friends and family, How do I get started running?

Well, running at its core is fairly straightforward. You just, well, run. But in order to enjoy a healthy life with running and make it a habit, you need to come at it with the right approach for a few reasons. For the next few episodes, I'm gonna focus on what new runners, real beginners, need to focus on by interviewing running experts. First up, and my guest today is Jay Deshari.

Originally from New Orleans, Jay completed his master's of physical therapy at Louisiana State University. Jay has built his international reputation as an expert in biomechanical analysis as the director of Speed Clinic at the University of Virginia. Jay is the author of Anatomy for Runners, writes columns for numerous magazines, and has published over a dozen professional journal articles. Jay is also a certified running coach for the United States Track and Field Association. The show notes for this episode can be found at Healthenomics.com/seventeen.

You'll also be able to sign up for my free running for beginners email course there. Okay. Let's go chat with Jay.

Welcome to the Healthinomics Podcast, boosting your health and fitness IQ one episode at a time. And now your host, Mark Kennedy.

Okay. So hey there, Jay. So why don't we start today, and we'll talk a little bit about running shoes, which I know is a big question for for new runners in particular. I'm wondering if you could just run through sort of what the considerations are and sort of what the common sort of miss and miss misconceptions that new runners have when looking to buy a running shoe and and what they should look for and that type of thing.

Yeah. For sure, Mark. So, know, running shoe is an important tool and, you know, you wanna make sure that you have the right tool for the job. But, you know, if you give me a backhoe, I'm not gonna excavate the lane correctly for a skyscraper. Right?

So you have to know what you're doing, you're more important than the actual shoe that you're in. And I think it's one of the biggest things that, know, new runners should understand. So, you know, if you think about good footwear, you wanna have kinda you you wanna have a shoe that's going to not mask what you're sensing. Right? So if you imagine, you know, tying your shoes with your bare hands is easier than tying a shoe, with gloves on.

Shoe shoes, you know, do provide some, some some cushioning and some, some tactile support for us. But again, a keyword there is tactile support. So if you have things that are overly cushioned, we tend to not get good feedback into our bodies and so we have a hard time doing our job, which is stabilizing our own body. You know, a shoe that weighs between six to 12 ounces is not gonna stabilize you. You have to do the work.

So and keep with that idea of giving you good feedback, yet providing some comfort and obviously a little bit of just, you know, tactile support. Shoes should be basically thin, firm, and light. And, you know, over the years, you know, that's that's what shoes started out as, you know, fifty, sixty years ago. Running shoes are very firm, very thin, very light. And and then shoes kind of progressed and gotten very cushioned and a bunch of stuff got stuck in them because, you know, if you can make technology, we can stick it in shoes.

Right? Mhmm. Yes. So the idea is, you know, trying to factor in what's important. And and you really wanna have a shoe that's gonna be lightweight.

I'll I'll be totally honest. If you wanna have a shoe that's actually gonna help you run faster because people always like that, the only thing that's been been validated by research is get a light shoe. So Okay. That that's it. So a light shoe is nice.

And and then thin, we talked about yeah. And people always talk about, you know, how much drop do I have to have? I'm not in a camp that everybody has to run a zero drop shoe. I think actually some amount of cushion is good, and the literature shows that, you again, no cushioning requires your your foot to have to do a lot of work. A lot of cushioning basically kind of gets in the way of your body's ability to stabilize and a little bit of cushioning actually tends to help us improve our economy.

So a little bit of cushion goes a long way. And so so we said, you know, a thin factor in there is important as well. Right? Because if you have a a ton of material, it tends to, you know, get her ability to detect where our foot is. So I think there's this thin firm and light kind of constraints hold true.

The other thing too is you know, just the fit of the shoe itself, you know, when you when you stand your foot does tend to splay or flatten out a little bit. And if you put a shoe on that feels too narrow, I know a lot of us tend to say, I'll just upsize, you know, one size and that can help for sure, but try and find a shoe that actually has a wide last or a wide kinda form to it. Mhmm. It would because it's really important to let your foot splay out. If you've got a if you put a shoe on, you feel like the the upper kinda mesh part of the shoe is, you know, constraining your foot, that's that's really gonna impair your ability to to stabilize your body.

So, yeah. Thin, firm, light, and make sure you have a sufficient width in the forefoot. Those are the really critical elements.

Okay, that's great. So what about for someone who's walking into a running store for the first time? What do they say to the person that works at the store, the customer service, and a running specialist? What do they say to them, you know, when they say they're new to new to running, sort of because they don't really know what they're looking for.

So Of course. Yeah. I I think yeah. It's a great question. Right?

I mean, I think you walk in and say, hey. I'm in a running looking for some shoes. If they immediately steer you over towards a bunch of big heavy products, I'd like to kind of steer people back. I think, well, what are the problems people have? And let me be clear.

I don't think that we have this kind of nomenclature. Right? We sort of wind up excuse me, with shoes being in what we call minimal footwear and, you know, everything else. And I I really don't like the fact that we have this distinction minimal footwear because it's it shouldn't really be minimal. It should be just shoes.

Mhmm. But yeah. I I I think, you know, maybe say, look, I like to try and get some, you know, lighter weight shoes. I'm just starting out with running. I really wanna make sure I I I I learn to run correctly.

And and some of that involves make sure you have a strong foot. And one of the reasons why a lot of runners who've had experience for a number of years, running in these big, you know, overly supportive, overly cushioned shoes, our feet have gotten quite weak and quite dependent on the on these shoes. And as a new runner, if you start out with less stuff on your feet, it makes it much easier to feel your gait and much easier to help your foot become strong. So I I really feel like it's you know, I hate to run down the bandwagon of minimal you know, using that label minimal, but the reality is a lot the retailers adopt it, and it may be nice if they steer you towards some big bulky stuff, say, hey. Look.

How about some other minimal options to give a try? Mhmm. But yeah. Try for some thin, firm, and light stuff.

Okay. And then do you recommend that the person try the shoes on and actually take them out for a run or what do you suggest Yes.

Try them on. A few tips here. So number one, you're buying shoes to run-in. You're not buying shoes to walk in. Typically, when you put a pair of shoes on, you've you've made your decision before to even stand up.

You know, that kind of sensation of first comfort holds a lot of weight. Yeah. And I definitely want people to buy shoes they they find comfortable. I will tell you something though, when you when you walk, right, you only have about, you know, one time your body weight. When you run, you have about two and a half times to three times your body weight you're supporting.

And so firmer shoes actually do better when we run. Softer shoes are fine when we walk. So if you're kind of torn between two shoes, you put two up on like, this one feels good to walk around, this one feels good. You know, the shoe that's actually a little bit firmer feeling will likely do a little better job if you're if you're actually running, And it's a little bit counterintuitive, but but again, that that soft cushion tends to pack down pretty quickly. So firmer cushion is definitely better, but definitely run the shoes.

The best case scenario is that your running shop will let you take the shoe outside around the block. If that's not the case of a treadmill, then you're maybe on the treadmill, but you definitely wanna you wanna get the shoe out for a few minutes and see how you feel.

Okay. Awesome. And then another question, you know, I get from people periodically, and you see people going to the running stores as well with the same issue or problems that they wear orthotics currently. So what are your recommendations there or thoughts around, you know, people who wear orthotics and then the running shoe that they choose?

Yeah. So first thing to figure out is actually do you need orthotics. And if you if you if you're considering this and say, you know, go see a clinician who really does understand your foot and and, you know, ask if that's something you need long term or short term. If people have foot alignment problems, then I use orthotics. If people don't have alignment issues, I I I don't go down the road orthotics and I try and get people, you know, strong enough to stabilize their own foot.

So it's a little different discussion, but if you do have orthotics, orthotics can take up volume in the shoe. They tend to be thicker than the average insole. So if you've got, you know, to stick something that's higher than the standard spec, you know, kind of flimsy insole on the shoe, you need have space. So definitely take your orthotics with you into the store and put them in the shoes that you're trying on. Don't just try a shoe and say, oh, it'll be fine later because the shoe will fit dramatically differently if you're trying to make sure your orthotics work well.

Perfect. And then what about types of stores to buy running shoes? Do you recommend, you know, going into a running specialist shop, which is what, you know, hopefully, I would think most people would do. But is that do you do you agree with that?

Wholeheartedly. For for a number of reasons. Number one, I mean, you know, running is a a community sport. Right? So I think just, you know, getting to know the people who are gonna be out.

You're gonna see it races every single day. Getting to the people you're gonna be running with is a great supportive environment. So I I would definitely encourage people to go towards, especially running retailer. And and, again, those I mean, let's be honest. If you have an ache or pain, the first person you're gonna have contact with is gonna be the folks at retail shop.

And they're they're a huge viable resource for folks. I mean, mostly I I read a study a long time ago. It's like 88% of people have asked that are running retailer about an injury, before they've sought the advice of a medical care provider. It's just an easy, simple discussion to enter into. It yeah.

They're a great resource. So for sure, you know, utilize them, support them for what they do for the community.

That's great. Okay. Well, let's move into a bit about preparing the body to run for, you know, for for a new runner who's maybe ran, you know, fifteen, twenty years ago or dabbled it in a bit, or someone who's just, you know, coming into it fresh. Perhaps they've, you know, carrying a few extra pounds. What are some considerations, for for people surrounding their body and sort of preparing them, for for running and preparing their body for what to expect after they run, maybe soreness and that type of thing?

Yeah. So let's let's tackle this from a few perspective. I think this is kind of probably the best question to answer. Right? So if you you know, one of the reasons why people start running and stop running is because they start running and they try and go run five miles, and they they they restore.

This doesn't feel good, so they stop running. Right? And that's that's we don't wanna have happen. So I think a few things. Number one, as far as increasing your volume, start slow.

And, you know, we hear this all the time, but, you know, starting slow for one person may mean a mile. Starting slow for somebody else may mean three. You have to be respective of where you are. Right? And if you're somebody who's been playing high school basketball for five years, four years, and then you wanna get into running when you go to college, that's different than having somebody who's had a sedentary desk job for twelve years and trying to start running.

So just think about your athletic history, but don't be afraid to do walk runs at first. You know, that's that's one thing to think about. And the other thing is I I I like to take the emphasis off of mileage and put the emphasis on time. Mhmm. Your body has no clue if you made it run four miles or 4.5 miles or or six miles.

It just knows how long you went out and how hard you went. So when you're trying to ramp up volume, I'm a big fan of kinda two minutes on, one minute off type of things versus half a mile on and then walk for point two miles or whatever. So I like using time. And the other nice thing is too, mean, some people who are out there listening to this have, you know, pretty flat terrain around them, and that puts a very different demand on your body than somebody who's got very hilly terrain. So I think I think going for time is good.

I'd slowly increase that. You know, as far as how much did you increase your running mileage per week, you know, we don't know this exactly from a research standpoint, but I will say that every study that's out there has shown, you know, 10% per week increase in volume to be a very nice safe level. So I I I would I I like that. At 15, I start to be okay with too. Once you start to get 20% per week increases, I think it's probably a little high for for newer folks.

But that's on the running side. But but on the let's talk about the nonrunning side because that's probably the the bigger thing here. Right? So I I kinda have three nonnegotiable elements that runners need to bring to the table. And I'm not saying you can't run if you if you don't pass these tests, but but it makes running more stressful on your body and less efficient.

So the three things are, you have to have enough range of motion and move your leg back behind you. Okay? And that requires three critical things in itself. That requires good hip extension, good ankle motion, and good big toe motion. Hip extension is basically, if you take, you're standing and you lift your knee up towards your chest, that's hip flexion, okay?

If you drop your knee down towards just straight in line with your torso, that'd be basically neutral. And if you let your leg go back, your hip move back behind you, that's hip extension. And so, it's important that we make sure we can extend our hips. In my clinical experience, about eighty five percent of the individuals I see don't sufficient hip extension. And if you don't have motion in your hip, it means you're gonna force motion from your back.

And that's not good for a number of reasons.

And so how far sorry to interrupt, but how far back, should you be able to extend?

Yeah. So normal hip extension is 15 to 18 degrees. Okay. So so it's not a lot, but if you lack that motion, again, you're gonna force motion, you know, up in your spine, you know, force excessive rotation. You may your your leg may kinda cut your push off short, which is not good from an efficiency standpoint.

So yeah, we just want to make sure people have motion. There's a great kneeling hip flexor stretch you can do, which is which is wonderful for this. And again, given that the vast majority of folks, you know, engage in this, will have a deficiency here as I definitely suggest you try it. It's very simple. You just drop down onto one knee, and then you basically, you know, kind of in a lunge position, and then you're going to imagine your pelvis is a cereal bowl, and now I want you to imagine you're gonna spill your milk behind you.

Okay. So it's basically a pelvic tilt. Yep. And you wanna hold that tilt for time. Okay.

So, the research shows we have to hold stretches for time. You're looking for about three to five minutes. Okay? Most days a week, about four to six days a week, and you do that for months. Okay?

That's not something to get better overnight. It takes some time, but it will improve. So, that's probably the biggest deficit I see in in folks trying to run is they don't have enough motion at their hip. So but so so hip motion is important. Big toe motion is important.

And then, ankle motion is important. So for the ankle and and big toe, you just wanna make sure you have enough dorsiflexion. If you're somebody who just, you know, standing tries to go into a little gentle squat, is feeling a lot of tightness in back their calves, that can force your heel to come up early and change your stability during stance. And if you're somebody who's got some some issues with with plantar fascia tightness, that can be an issue. I I may point folks over.

I did a story for running times many years ago, and if you type in, are you ready for minimal running times? If you type that in the YouTube, you'll find a nice video we did, which which which isn't just for minimal, but it it talks about how to assess and and how to check yourself to ensure that you have enough motion at your ankle and your big toe.

Sounds great. I'll yeah. I'll I'll find that and put a link to it in the in the show notes for sure.

Yeah. So so that that's some mobility concerns. And then some from there, we run on two more concerns. They're a little more simple. But so one is you wanna make sure you have enough so what oh, let me backtrack.

Once you find out you have enough motion, right? So enough motion at your hip, motion at your ankle, motion at your big toe, then you want to make sure that you have a good stable foundation and that you can drive from your hip. Okay? And what that means is you're make sure you have good core stability. And core stability is not linked to how many crunches you can do at all.

In fact, your your rectus abdominis, that muscle's called your six pack. Right? That muscle is a flexor. It moves my spine and there is zero correlation to abdominal strength, okay? And basically, true kind of core stability.

So it's important you learn the right muscles to activate. I'm happy to go into some detail here, but but you really should, you know, probably get some help if you're unfamiliar with this. Basically, you wanna make sure you can activate with a muscle called your transversus. And it's a deep muscle in our abdominal wall.

Now is that the transverse abdominis?

Yes. Exactly.

Okay.

Yeah. So, you know, one one of the things you can do, if you'd basically just if you find that bump, that very prominent bump in the front of your pelvis, you can kinda feel that little bump. It's called your anterior superior iliac spine. Yep. And you put your finger on that bump and then you just slide your finger up about an inch and a half.

And if you cough, all right, that muscle will just kind of pouch right into your fingers and you'll feel it. And that's a very nice spot to feel your transversus. And so the goal is not to walk around going like, all day long. The goal is to just activate that muscle gently,

okay,

About 30% contraction. And and so that's the best thing to do to get your core control. So it's not like that was a new exercise, but you wanna basically try and pre contract that muscle just about 40%, and then do, you know, a plank or, you know, different, you know, torso rotations or, you know, whatever exercise a day you read is, you know, the one that you wanna do. But it's not so much, you know, there's no best core exercise, but there's a right way to do all your core exercises. And and, you know, people who've been taught to kinda lift their belly button up and in and kinda flatten their back, that's actually using those flexor muscles.

That's not your core.

Okay.

You you you can't use that functionally. And likewise, we don't wanna see people arch their back. So kinda long winded there, but but but it's important to make sure you know how to activate your core correctly. And then the the the third thing is so we see you have enough enough motion, have to have good proximal core control and stability. And the third thing is to learn to fire from your hips.

Right? So it's really important to make sure you can actually isolate out your glute max. Okay? Your glute max has three super important functions. It serves to to extend your hip.

Okay? It serves to control your posture. If your glute max is weak, what happens? We see people tend to kind of lean forward a whole lot. And the third thing it does is control rotation.

And it's really important to make sure if you've seen pictures of people running with that knee kind of collapsed and diving into the inside, that it's a real kind of wind up of the lower leg, and it's important to make sure that we can get the glute maxifier to stabilize our alignment where in stance. So to help with those, I like a number of things. When exercise, I like a lot, kind of a bunch of things all at once, is the single leg deadlift. And it's really hard to do this wrong if you use one zipple prop. So if you go take a broomstick or just a PVC, you know, doll or something you have lying around, ski pole, and if you put that ski pole behind you, so it's in hold it so it's in contact with your head, the middle of your back, and your tailbone.

Okay. So you've got that stick kinda you're holding both hands along the backside of your body. And then keeping your knees not locked, but pretty straight. You wanna kinda push your hips backwards. Okay?

And then push your hips forward to come back up again. That's gonna make sure that you're actually moving from your hips and not from your spine. And just practice that maybe fifteen, twenty times and just get the motion down. And then once you kinda understand that you're moving from your hip and not your back, so as you come forward, make sure that stick doesn't come off your tailbone. It's gonna make sure you move from your hips.

Then you wanna try and do that in one leg. And and and I just as it's a nice simple warm up exercise to get people used to, again, moving from their spine, keeping good stability. You have to work a little bit of balance. Right? So it's just one simple warm up exercise, which does a whole lot of benefit for runners.

That's great. And then and I also wanna ask you, what are some common sort of niggles or injuries you get? I'm sure you see all the time of people who just started running, and they've done a few runs, and they they come in to see you, and and, you know, where are their pain points usually?

Yeah. So the the top three running injuries that I see are no different than one stuff we see out there in the literature and so forth. It's basically number one is is gonna be knee pain, usually kind of front of the knee pain. Mhmm. Number two is is typically shin pain, shin splints.

And number three is low back pain. Okay. So talk about a few of those real quickly. So knee pain typically happens when your leg tends to kind of wobble side to side, right? So, I always talk about, know, this idea behind we have a train, we have a track.

Your patella, your kneecap is kind of the train. That train should kind of track up and down the groove nicely. But more importantly, we look at what the track, right? So as you're running, if your if your entire left leg is diving and rotating into the inside, as you run, you know, no amount of little isolated quad sets is gonna help that. Right?

You have to work on controlling your your leg alignment. So, again, making sure you have great glute control is super important. That single a day lift exercise I mentioned earlier is helpful for this. There's a bunch of clamshells and for things to activate your glute. Those little monster walks, You put bands in your feet and kinda go side to side.

There's a bunch of good things here to help with that, but but anterior knee pain is one of the biggest ones we see. And it's also made worse by overstriding. When you run with your leg contacting very firm in front of your body, you put a bunch of load in your knee. So for, you know, one one simple cue, when you run for ten years starting to run on February 3 when there's a nice sheet of ice outside.

Yeah. Especially in

Exactly. So you you actually do have this problem. Yes. But, yeah, so I always joke it'd be great to hold introductory running clinics outside in February. Right?

Because nobody's gonna take big bounding strides because the ground's slick.

Oh, yeah. That's how I've learned to shorten my stride down. Exactly. Training up here in Toronto in February, that's you've do that.

Yeah. So it's it's a great it's a great thing to do. Right? Just visualize the exact scenario. It's gonna minimize the overstriding level.

It dramatically decreases loads of the knee, upwards about 40%. So it's a great, great, great tip to to try and lessen lows in the knee. That's number one. For the shin pain, there's two things here. Again, that overstriving aspect is is a integral part here as well.

Right? So if that leg contacts very far in front of you, those muscles up in your lower leg have to work overtime. But what's more important that is is to learn to strengthen your foot. Right? So very simply, if you have a strong foot, your foot's gonna stabilize itself.

If you have a weak foot, the stress is gonna go up into your shin. So just working on some balance training and learning to isolate your big toe is is really important. Again, I direct you back to that, are you ready for minimal video? And I go through a nice little sequence there on how to engage your foot to make sure your foot's strong. And you'll you'll be amazed.

Folks who try this stuff out and just stay on one leg, and it's even nice test. Right? Just, you know, stand on your leg for thirty seconds, your left side, your right side. And some people can't even do that. Right?

And then we have people close their eyes on one leg. And when you close your eyes, you take away vision and you magnify your kind of sensation or kind of learning from the ground. And that's really, really, really important to make sure that you can feel what's happening below you. Yeah. And runners are very visual dominance.

And and people who tend to kinda fall over or lose contact with their foot, you can make dramatic gains. I have people who literally can't stand on one leg within, like, you know, five days. They're able to close their eyes and rotate and do all kind of fancy stuff. Right? Because Wow.

If you work on it, you improve your deficits. So I agree with a little progression of that video. I think it's definitely worthwhile and people will be amazed by how quickly that improves and how much low that takes off of your shin. So he said knee pain, shin pain, and low back pain. Right?

So, you know, again, two things here. One is a lot of us have those tight hip flexor muscles. Those tight hip flexor muscles pull us into that kind of spilling our serial forward position. Okay. We're kind of it's what we call a hyperlordosis or an increased arch in our back.

And as you stand this way, because a lot of us do, with one time body weight, it's not that much lower in your back, but then when you run, we have about, you know, two and a half to three times our body weight kind of compressing and shearing that spine. So one of the biggest tips I would I would say is, imagine you're running uphill. People who have back pain or running typically don't have back pain when they run uphill, because when we run uphill, we have to kind of lean slightly into the

hill. Yes.

And so, in that position that we're in, where we kind of drop the sternum, kind of the breastbone, if you slightly drop the sternum down, that will actually put your spine in more of a neutral position, and that unloads your spine. It's super helpful. So when you're running on flat, imagine you're running slightly up an incline, And when you're running downhill, resist the temptation to kind of slump backwards in the back seat. Okay? I always use the analogy of a skier.

So if you look at a downhill skier, your downhill skiers kind of keep their weight centered over the skis so they can have weight in their tips. Mhmm. They don't kind of, again, slump on the back seat. And when you run downhill, if you let yourself arch backwards, that puts an inordinate amount of load on your spine. So, imagine that kind of cue about kind of skiing downhill that'll help you kind of maintain your your your spine in good position.

Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Now are are these considerations for injuries, and these common injuries, would they be the same for people that, might be carrying a few extra pounds?

Yeah. They would. For sure. I I think the the the main difference here is I people always say, oh, well, you know, I'm bigger. Should I, you know what what modifications do I have to make?

Right? So I think a few things. One, in general, if you're if you tend to be a little bit larger, you're probably a little more deconditioned. So I think just, again, taking time, you know, the balance stuff we talked about, hip mobility, those posture alignments, those become a little bit more important for sure to make sure you can tap into those. Mhmm.

But once you improve your body mechanics, I'd say that the differences in increasing our body aren't really any different. So that kind of 10% rule, I think holds true. I think just be smart about increasing your volume. You know, again, resist the temptation. I know we we see people on, you know, shows like Biggest Loser, you know, and we get motivated and excited, but we're trying to push our bodies too far too quickly, and we get hurt.

And, you know, it's it's it's not fair to, you know, to to try and just, you know, go for an hour the first day. You know, let's channel that motivation into a smart plan, and make sure your your increases are progressive, and you'll achieve your goals. And that's the whole goal. So not not know, not thinking short term about just today's run. We're thinking about making a lifestyle change to make sure you can accommodate these stresses for the long haul.

That's great. So before we wind up here, I just had one last question. And I know a lot of people too, when they're new to running and say they haven't been that athletic growing up, they feel like you know, they look funny. It feels unnatural when they run. What do you what do you say to to those people to help them sort of, I guess, with their confidence in going out there and not being afraid to to go out for a run?

Yeah. I I think, you know, number one, I I think, you know, find somebody you can go for a run with. Okay? So, you know, every study out there on psychology of training shows if you have a buddy to to join, you know, you're less likely to skip your workout. So I think finding somebody to go as one, you're gonna have questions as a new runner that go well beyond what we talked about today.

And it gives you an opportunity to bounce some ideas off somebody. Right? So almost every single running store, running store that I know of, has kind of beginner training groups that go out. And and some of those runs are not five mile runs. They're one, two mile runs.

But there's people just like you who are looking to, you know, find a community to jump into. So I think just, you know, going out and getting out there and being consistent and thinking about, look, you know, I wanna try and hit some goals as being consistent as as the first thing. Right? So, you know, write down a sheet of paper somewhere in your house and say, look, today, I'm gonna go out for, you know, two minutes on, one minute walk. I'm gonna do that, you know, four times, for week one.

Week two, I'm gonna do that five times. Just gradually increase that volume up and then start looking at, okay, the five k, the 10 k you're thinking about. But make a commitment to being consistent first and and and just getting out there.

That's great. Well, listen, Jay. I'll I'll make sure I put a link to the video you you referred to a couple times there. And also, I'll link to your book. Are do you have a couple books now?

Well, I have I have two books. Yeah. I have I have anatomy for runners, which was The US book, which which has all the stuff we talked about, and then some in there.

Which I've read, and I and I love that. And

And then I have a European edition of the same book. So it's called run like Athlete.

Okay.

It's the exact same content. I just suggest that you watch a Hugh Grant movie and eat and drink some tea while you while you're reading it. It's written in the Queen's English, but same content.

So I love it. Okay. Well, listen, Jay. Thanks very much for your time, and have a great day.

Thank you, Mark. Thanks for listening to the Healthinomics Podcast at www.Healthinomics.com.